Justin Raimondo contrasts the tea party’s populism with the decadent elites of the welfare-warfare state:
The rise of an often militant right-wing populist movement – the tea partiers, the Ron Paulistas, the tenth amendment restorationists and the regionalists – has the powers-that-be in a tizzy….
Just as war is the ultimate expression of government power, so opposition to war is the ultimate expression of “antigovernment” sentiment.
Our elites hate populism in all its forms simply because it threatens their power, their privileges, their pelf and their prestige: populism is by definition a revolt against the elites, in government and society. Worst of all, from a ruling class perspective, is populism of the “antigovernment” variety, because it threatens the source and symbol of their power: what Murray Rothbard called the Welfare-Warfare State.
One problem: The current outburst of anti-establishment right-wing sentiment is not even close to being anti-war or anti-empire. Here is CODEPINK’s Medea Benjamin’s report from a tax day Tea Party protest in D.C.:
In our very small, unscientific sample, the hawks–many of whom were retired military or have close family in the military–outweighed the doves. Take the first question about the 800-plus bases the U.S. military maintains at a cost of over $100 billion a year. Thirty-five of the 50 respondents wanted to keep the bases.
On Iraq and Afghanistan, most of the people we interviewed were not disturbed by our statistic that every taxpayer had already paid over $7,000 for the wars–and that’s before Obama’s latest escalation. Seventy percent did not want a quick withdrawal, saying that we had to “finish the job first.”
You would think that aid would be particularly unpopular within the Tea Party. That was true in the case of Egypt, where 45 out of 50 interviewees preferred cutting aid[....]But when it came to Israel, 80 percent wanted to keep up our $3 billion in aid, even though we pointed out that Israel is a wealthy country.
And though Raimondo would like to think that the corporatist fusion of state and private sector power is hated by tea parties – perhaps through conjecture given their opposition to the bailouts – not-even-remotely-libertarian leftists are, by default, relatively more “left libertarian” in their view of the military’s use of private contractors:
On the question of supporting high-paid private security contractors like Blackwater (Xe) that take jobs from the military, the group was split down the middle. Half agreed that unaccountable contractors sullied our country’s reputation and those jobs should be returned to the military. The other half said that as long as we don’t have a draft [emphasis mine], we need private contractors.
So does the half that doesn’t support the use of companies like Blackwater support a draft? Difficult to know, but if they were against the warfare state one would think they’d suggest ending the use of contractors by ending the military engagements that employ them. The questioning methodology may not have been open-ended, however. Indeed the answers presented here appear binary.
True, Raimondo mentions more than just Tea Party activity. But it’s the Tea Party protests that have attracted the lion’s share of media attention and invited conflation of their activity with the more radical anti-state fringe in the “liberal imagination,” ala Trilling. One could gather from Raimondo and the elite media that Paulistas and the main of the Tea Party as somewhat interchangeable; the difference being, of course, that Raimondo has a positive view of this big tent.
As far as I know there’s been little demographic analysis of the more radical element within the Tea Party, those that come down squarely against foreign intervention, emphasize civil liberties (and the “prison-industrial complex”), etc. On average, however, the idea that they are populist is questionable at best. Tea Partiers are too Republican (or at the very least Republican leaning) to be broad based, have a somewhat higher level of education, and are disproportionately white and Protestant. It would be more correct to identify the Tea Parties as an expression of identity politics for white folks, as Pat Buchanan does via Obama. (Suggesting that identity politics is at play even for those that don’t officially subscribe to it is to come awfully close to agreeing with Critical Race Theory, but so be it, that’s a discussion for another day – or the comment thread.)
Maybe what really seals the deal for the anti-populist argument is the fact that Tea Partiers are just too ideological. What’s popular is being ideologically clueless and not voting. (True, the turnout for presidential elections often crosses the 50% mark, but when congressional, senatorial, and state and local elections are included, this is not the case.) The Tea Partiers are far too consistent across issue positions to be in the dark ideologically, and they are overwhelmingly (97%) registered to vote, against 67% of the nation at large (though the latter link covers the November 2006 election – the historic election of 2008 probably brought that up).
Show me a group described as populist, and I’ll show you an ideologue projecting a fantasy.
April 22, 2010 at 12:12 pm
>”You would think that aid would be particularly unpopular within the Tea Party. That was true in the case of Egypt, where 45 out of 50 interviewees preferred cutting aid[....]But when it came to Israel, 80 percent wanted to keep up our $3 billion in aid, even though we pointed out that Israel is a wealthy country.”
Which is is pretty irrational, since our aid to Egypt is part and parcel of our aid to Israel. It’s basically a bribe to Egypt to not go to war.
>”Maybe what really seals the deal for the anti-populist argument is the fact that Tea Partiers are just too ideological. What’s popular is being ideologically clueless and not voting.”
Populist does not mean doing anything that’s popular, it means opposing the rich and powerful. In that sense much of the GOP base really is populist. Ironicaly, much of the liberal base is anti-populist.
April 22, 2010 at 12:43 pm
> It’s basically a bribe to Egypt to not go to war.
And to set a “chill” precedent for other Arabs. I believe Egypt even recognizes Israel’s right to exist.
But really, half the country doesn’t know how many senators are in our senate. These facts about aid to Egypt are quite arcane. I would be surprised if 2% of Americans are aware of them.
April 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Populist does not mean doing anything that’s popular, it means opposing the rich and powerful. In that sense much of the GOP base really is populist. Ironically, much of the liberal base is anti-populist.
Yea I tortured the historical use of the word ‘populist’ a bit, taking it too literally. But it IS a notoriously fuzzy political ‘doctrine.’ Determining who the powerful are is where it breaks down. But as far as the rich go, the Tea Partiers are not populist. They are conventionally Republican on taxation and redistribution.
If you exclude a cultural dimension to populism (“cultural elites,” “creative class”), which seems indicated by positing the rich and powerful rather than, say, intellectuals and media figures, very little of the liberal base is anti-populist as I see it. They consider the rich and powerful to be synonymous.
April 22, 2010 at 4:02 pm
>”But as far as the rich go, the Tea Partiers are not populist. They are conventionally Republican on taxation and redistribution.”
I’d say that most Tea Partiers opposed the bank bailouts, which were the most notable instance of redistribution in living memory. And it was a redistribution to the rich. Therefore opposing it is a populist stance.
>”very little of the liberal base is anti-populist as I see it. They consider the rich and powerful to be synonymous.”
They also, correctly, see the rich and powerful as being libeal. Which is why most Democratic domestic policy is concerned with funneling ever more money to the already rich and powerful. The banking “reform” bill the Dems are trying to ram through is a fine example of this.
April 22, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Being populist takes more than opposing one huge visible instance of corporate welfare. I don’t think the Tea Partiers are anymore populist on that issue than most other Americans. Yes, opposing that is a populist stance, but being populist on a single issue would make everyone populist.
The NYT’s analysis of their views on government redistribution of wealth to the poor puts them squarely outside the populist camp.
April 22, 2010 at 9:23 pm
>”The NYT’s analysis of their views on government redistribution of wealth to the poor puts them squarely outside the populist camp.”
Well, no. I assume they oppose redistribution of wealth to the poor. But such a view does not place them outside the populist camp. Contrary to common American usage, a populist is not a person who wants to give money to the poor. A populist is somebody who opposes the rich. There’s an important distinction there.
April 22, 2010 at 7:24 pm
As far as I know there’s been little demographic analysis of the more radical element within the Tea Party, those that come down squarely against foreign intervention, emphasize civil liberties (and the “prison-industrial complex”), etc.
I found a right-wing patriot site quite amenable to the Raimondo-Rothbardian synthesis:
http://republicbroadcasting.org/
From the comments following the news articles I surmise that this is a less educated, poorer and more conspiratorially-minded group than the Tea Party as a whole.
April 22, 2010 at 7:27 pm
P.S. The Alex Jones followers should also fit into this demographic.
April 22, 2010 at 11:04 pm
I assume they oppose redistribution of wealth to the poor. But such a view does not place them outside the populist camp. Contrary to common American usage, a populist is not a person who wants to give money to the poor. A populist is somebody who opposes the rich.
Looking at the history of populism in the US it would appear you are right. The issue of redistribution to the poor alone would not place them outside the populist camp. As good a place as any to start is the Wikipedia page for The People’s Party, aka Populist party:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_%28United_States%29
The party supported a graduated income tax, which is an anti-rich position (but not necessarily pro-poor). On this issue the Tea Partiers probably don’t agree, compared to other Americans being more anti-tax and believing the tax burden has gotten worse. The issue of progressive taxation was not asked in the NYT survey. But check out this whopper:
“Do you think it is a good or bad idea to raise income taxes on people who make over $250,000 per year in order to help provide health insurance to people who do not already have it?”
80% of Tea Partiers say bad idea! More than 2-1 against other Americans.
The Populist Party was also for nationalization of railroads, telephones (insert modern equivalent here), etc. If the Tea Partiers are for nationalization of industry I’ll eat my shorts.
So if the Tea Partiers are populist, other Americans are even more so, making them by default rather non-populist IMHO.
April 23, 2010 at 11:29 am
“As good a place as any to start is the Wikipedia page for The People’s Party, aka Populist party?”
If I agreed with that reasoning I’d have to believe that best source of information on conservatism was to look at the platforms of the British and Canadian Conservative Party’s.
Or the agenda of the US Republican Party, aka Conservative Party.
In short, I think that is a silly way to decide what populism (or conservatism) is all about.
I prefer different words to mean different things. You seem to want populism to be a synonym for socialism. Among oyther problems, socialism has never been very … popular.
April 23, 2010 at 12:58 pm
If I agreed with that reasoning I’d have to believe that best source of information on conservatism was to look at the platforms of the British and Canadian Conservative Party’s.
For a lay person trying to figure out what conservatism is about in Canada or Britain I’d say those aren’t bad heuristics. Of course it’s just a starting point for learning more.
There is no modern populist party nor prominent populist think tanks so I’m not sure where else to look. The “doctrine” of populism is fuzzy enough, I’d rather not invite ambiguity on the topic by avoiding self-identified populists in favor of other groups I merely suspect are populist.
In short, I think that is a silly way to decide what populism (or conservatism) is all about.
Not sillier than the alternatives, which are more speculative and open to the projection of one’s own ideas, ala Raimondo on the Tea Parties.
You seem to want populism to be a synonym for socialism.
I “want” it to mean what self described populists think it means because that would be the truth.
April 23, 2010 at 8:51 am
Republic, Revolution and Oracle, broadcasting networks, are all intellectually influenced by Rothbard, and Anti-war.com. They, in turn, have a good-sized following, via shortwave, micro-broadcast networks, sattelite and internet radio.
However, their influence pales in comparison to the Glenn Beck-mainstream talk radio.
On the other hand, the alternative-radio networks can boast a younger and more radicalised listenership.
The Tea Parties were started by young Ron Paulers doing what they did for the past three years. It burgeoned out of control and become the province of the ineffectual blue-hairs.
That’s the summary in a nutshell.
April 23, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Dain – The Tea Parties aren’t Populist (in the sense of duplicating the politics of the late 19th-century Populist movement). That doesn’t mean, however, that they’re not populist (with a small ‘p’).
Would you not describe Pierre Poujade, within the context of French politics, as a populist? He seems to me to fit that description.
Indeed, the Tea Parties strongly resemble Poujadisme, with their mixture of anti-tax sentiment, opposition to the political class and to the political system. Their demographics are also similar – small businessmen, white-collar and skilled blue-collar non-union private sector workers, suburban and rural (provincial) rather than urban. They see themselves as belonging neither to the political/corporate elite and its supporting intelligentsia, nor to the government-subsidized lumpenproletariat.
And the reaction of the American political establishment towards the Tea Partiers exactly parallels the mixture of alarm and snobbish dismissiveness that Poujadisme elicited from the French establishment in the 1950s.
April 23, 2010 at 1:44 pm
The most populist thing about the Tea Parties is that they appear pretty spontaneous and not orchestrated from above. They are not just astroturf laid down by big business and Koch Industries.
I’m not familiar with Poujade. I will look him up.
April 25, 2010 at 8:44 am
Oh, horseshit. The tea parties are about as spontaneous as the Nuremberg rallies.
Not to say that there isn’t some genuine populist sentiment being marshalled, but thanks to the near-total cluelessness of the teabaggers there is no danger of it doing anything more radical than electing Republicans.
April 25, 2010 at 10:09 am
Your article starts by mentioning the convention Palin attended, but most Tea Party groups have been hostile to that bunch (who basically stole the efforts of people who did not intend to create a for-profit). Tea Parties are a fractured bunch which mostly operate locally, without a sort of national organization over them. This can give rise to the conflicts such as mentioned above, or the guy who tried to set up an actual political party with the T.E.A acronym and was sued by others.
April 25, 2010 at 10:50 am
The Teabaggers are Republicans, whether or not they say or believe otherwise. Their anti-government sentiment was absent during the Bush years and mysteriously flared up as soon as a Democrat was in the white house, just like the militia movements who were active during the Clinton administration, then largely disappeared under Bush.
This is inevitable, because whatever localized, grass-roots discontent these people have, they are too clueless and incoherent to do anything about it. Thus their energy is delivered up into the only coherent political formation available to receive it. They might have formed a far-right third party if the Republicans weren’t perfectly willing to embrace the looniest fringes of the right themselves.
April 25, 2010 at 6:33 pm
I agree the Tea Partiers are disaffected Republicans (although many are wary of the GOP “hijacking” the Tea Parties, they themselves presumably intend to seize control of the GOP).
I don’t think the militia movement went away once Bush was elected, I believe it had already shrunk years before then. It is said to have peaked in 1996.
April 23, 2010 at 2:06 pm
The “doctrine” of populism is fuzzy enough
It is. Although not much more so than “liberalism”, “libertarianism” etc.
I’d rather not invite ambiguity on the topic by avoiding self-identified populists in favor of other groups I merely suspect are populist.
I don’t know any self identified populists other than myself. I can tell you that my own populist sentiments consist of distrust of the rich and also of the poor, who are the rich’s accomplices in their plans. But the rich moreso, as the poor are an inert mass without direction from the rich.
I “want” it to mean what self described populists think it means because that would be the truth
I’m a self-described populist. Glad you accept my words as the Truth!
April 23, 2010 at 2:13 pm
I’m a self-described populist. Glad you accept my words as the Truth!
Granted. Of course this has to be weighed against the Populist Party and everyone involved therein.
April 23, 2010 at 2:21 pm
This seems relevant, an interview with the author of The Populist Vision:
http://newbooksinhistory.com/?p=1059
April 24, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Daniel Larison has been writing about this, but I think he’s got his own particular definition of “true” populism, somewhat similar to his perspective on patriotism vs nationalism.
Matthew Yglesias has been pointing out that among whites, ethnocentrism is correlated with support for broad-based welfare schemes (entitlements) but opposition to means-tested ones. Just the the opposite of what a libertarian willing to take half-a-loaf should want.
I’m ambivalent about contracting out military stuff. I hear about incidents Blackwater is involved in, but the same thing is true of the uniformed military. I haven’t seen any sort of systematic comparison.
April 26, 2010 at 4:27 pm
The tea parties are about as spontaneous as the Nuremberg rallies.
If the Kochtopus has its tentacles wrapped around all these folks I’ll promise to believe we didn’t go to the moon:
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/state/California
April 27, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Matthew Yglesias has been pointing out that among whites, ethnocentrism is correlated with support for broad-based welfare schemes (entitlements) but opposition to means-tested ones.
That’s more or less his claim.
..if you restrict your attention to white Americans then ethnocentric views (both in terms of positive views of whites and negative views of non-whites) is correlated with hostility to means-tested welfare programs
Sounds like some cherry-picking of data. What if you restrict your attention to non-white Americans? And I’m underwhelmed by the suggestion that non-whites don’t benefit from Medicare and Social Security.
April 27, 2010 at 12:22 pm
anti-government sentiment was absent during the Bush years and mysteriously flared up as soon as a Democrat was in the white house, just like the militia movements who were active during the Clinton administration, then largely disappeared under Bush.
If you go around believing what the media tell you, it’s somewhat understandable that you would believe this to be the case. Not exactly commendable, but understandable.
April 29, 2010 at 11:24 am
Maybe someone else addressed this in this thread- but- this was a “DC area” Tea Party event. Couldn’t the views of this group of Tea Partiers on the wars be a bit skewed since again- we are talking about a Tea Party taking place in an area of the country where every other person subsists on government spending of some sort- especially military spending?